Tradewinds Decking

[DeckDesigns]

Does anyone know anything about Tradewinds Decking? One of my customers had a sample but I can barely find any info on it. I know it is a pvc product similar to ProCell but can not find who makes or distributes it and obviously my competitor who gave then the sample won't be telling me. I believe it might be a private label brand and it looks a little like Elk in the way it is built (it has a hollow core that are circles) and has a grooved edge for a clip installation method.

Thanks for the help

[Bobby Parks]

I've not heard of Tradewinds Decking. I did not find a web site either. Any product that you can't easily locate a web site, dealer or manufacturer info represents risk in my mind. It seems to me that this could work in your favor with the customer. They may think they like this product but they may in fact turn out to be the guinea pig . One of the requirements in my mind for a product is to ba able to gain info and history as well as knowing there is in fact a reputable manufacturer to back the warranty. You may have already brought up this ;point to the customer. Bobby Parks

[Bobby Parks]

I spoke too soon. I did find the web site for Tradewinds decking or the Tradeswind company. Some where in Laguna California. Seems to have limited circulation as a product but may in fact be fine.? Bobby

[Doug Whittaker]

My family purchased the dark brown Tradewinds decking material back in May of 2007. Almost immediately upon putting the product down it began to turn white. We immediately contacted the company we purchased it from Rocky Mountain Forest Products in Wheatridge Colorado. Rocky Mountain Forest Products was aware of the defective product and stated that several other customers had the same problem. Rocky Mountain would not stand behind the product and refered us to the Manufacturer which is a company named Elevon Industries in Toronto Canada. To date this issue has not been resolved. If there is anyone who has had similar problems with this product please contact me so we can work together to get this problem resolved. Please leave me a message at 1 (303) 337-0377
Thank you very much. October 07

[DeckCreations]

Doug,

While I have not come across Tradewinds decking material, I have encountered defective decking material by Trex, WeatherBest and Veranda. I only mention this because even though their warranties will only cover defects such as checks, splinters, rot, splits and structural damage from insects, the defects I have seen are actually a deterioration of the surface structure (not addressed in the warranty) and they are footing the entire bill to have it removed and replaced. Of course Trex and WeatherBest are in the big league but I suspect that if the manufacturer of Tradewinds decking continues to have defective product being reported and they plan to stay in business, that they will have to change their tune.

In terms of my experience, BrightServ out of Dallas, TX 888-600-5744 is the insurance company that brokers the deal between the consumer and the manufacturer. Good luck.

[Mike K]

I don't know anything about Tradewinds...but there are several new deckings popping up monthly. I can however shed some light on the deterioration of Trex and other "composites".

By nature these products are subject to this as the wood, being used as a filler in the composition of the product, can and will absorb water as well as break down w/ UV exposure. Yes, the plastic supposedly "encapsulates" the wood to protect it, but in every board roughly 50% of it's surface is exposed wood.

I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, but I have been distributing composite decking since it's inception around 15 years ago and have experience with many of the major brands and versions available.

Simply put, there is no free lunch with decking and every product has it's ups and downs as far as performance, longevity, warranty, aesthetics and price goes. To some extent, you get what you pay for and experience on the manufacturer's part goes a long way as many have "designed out" the problems that have popped up during their history.

[Bobby Parks]

Mike, You make some very good points. It's definitely better to use products that are proven and either have a history, or have a technology that performs. I have always felt that until the wood flower aspect is removed, that there will issues to varying degrees with composites. Azek's Procell pvc based product, I believe is on track or headed in the right direction interms of providing a true longterm option for us and howmowners. This seems to be driving other manufacturers to come up with their own similar type products. I have had pretty good luck with a very short listl of other composites but have always told product reps that until they remove the wood flower part. What are your thoughts on this?

[Mike K]

Bobby, you hit the nail on the head about the wood content in composites. 15 years ago when Timbrex (the predecessor of Trex) came out, the concept of a "Composite" was new and the product seemed bulletproof. Now, after years of real life trials and many revisions to the physical makeup of ingredients, manufacturing processes as well as aesthetics, the products available from most all manufacturers have seemed to plateau in terms of actual performance. Some definitely are better than others...not necessarily the big boys either.

I wasn't necessarily going to throw brands out there, but you mentioned what I believe to be the number 1 product available on the market...Azek Deck...formerly known as Procell. PVC technology has exploded in the past several years with Azek leading the way. Their manufacturing process of producing cellular PVC has not only revolutionized the trim market but has expanded into moldings, pattern stock and now decking. Just to throw the composites a bone, a good product that is unique in the way it is made is Evergrain. Being compression molded instead of extruded, the product has less surface porosity and seems to be less subject to the degradation.

The main advantage of the "Procell Technology" is the limited use of fiber, in this case flax, that is utilized only as a stabilizer (to control thermal expansion). Like I mentioned, the wood content of composites used as a filler actually create the problem of degradation over time. By using such a small percentage of flax, Azek decking maintains most all of the performance advantages of a PVC product.

To prove this point, I am in the process of removing composite decking on my own 600'sq deck and replacing it with Azek Deck. The composite has been down since 10/05 and is disintegrating beyond belief (I've seen bad failure and provided warranty replacement on a multitude of decks and have never seen product disintegrate like this has). That is how much faith I have in Azek...also, I chose Azek over Ipe even though the cost is approximately the same. NOTE: I have Evergrain railing components (2x4 railing & 2x6 top rail) that are performing wonderfully and are remaining in place during my renovation project.

[RobertCDF]

Care to fill us in on what brand was on your deck?

[Bobby Parks]

Mike, I don't know who you are, but you obviously know a lot about this business and products we use. It's nice to have you in here to talk to. I to have had pretty good luck with Evergrain and know people that have used it for years. I had dinner with some of the Azek people while at the Remodeling Show in Vegas. I believe you are right in terms of this PVC based technology offering us the best product. I had someone in my office last week that introduced a product called Sensa ?something ( have to find the brochure to remember the name). It is a good looking product that is designed along the same lines as Azek/Procell. They did the stain test thing and it really does was impressive. The people introducing this have a good history in this industry and have good backgrounds. It's my understanding that many of the composite product players are coming out with their version of a comparable option.

[DeckCreations]

Bobby, could that PVC product that you mentioned be Cellek (www.structuredecking.com)? I just received some samples of it and it doesn't look all that bad for an all plastic decking material.

[Mike K]

To be totally fair about the product I am replacing, it is not representative of the current offering the company is producing as they have figured out what was wrong and reconfigured the ingredients and proportions. It is the first generation Elements from TAMKO. They are now on the 3rd generation of the product and have what seems to be a winner for it's classification and price point within the heirarchy of composite decking. That being said it is still very frustrating to be replacing any composite after just 2 years (but it gives me the opportunity to talk my wife into letting me build an extension on the deck with a covered wet bar!)

Bobby, I appreciate your comments. It is just inherent that I know as much about the products I sell as well as the competition in order to intelligently compare and contrast all options with dealers and their customers.

[buildenterprises]

A cheaper(not by much though) alternative to Azek/ProCell is Veka, it's also pure PVC with no wood fillers. It's my second favorite after ProCell. I love using standard stainless screws and laying an entire deck on one charged battery. The lightweight aspect is great also, it's definitely easier to move around and lessens the overall dead load on the deck structure.

[Bobby Parks]

Bill, It is called Sensibuilt. I could'nt quite remember the name the other day. Memory fades in and out. Working today so far. This is a good looking product very similar to procell but with some slightly differnt colors. I believe this is a product that everyone will come to know soon. I love the Azek/Procell and I like the people that I know within the Azek company, but I have to admit this Sensibuilt looks good and the people seem very knowlegeable and credible. www.nationalnail.com should get you a look at the product if a web search does not. I'm always skeptical with new and unproven products without a track record. I may be letting my guard down too much with this but I'm just more confident with the pvc technolgy stuff that I see headed our way. Bobby

[Bobby Parks]

Bill, forgot to mention that I agree with you on the Cellek. I beleive I saw that at the Deck Expo. You know, you look at this stuff and you think, it just doesn't quite look natural or like real wood. The thing is, although it doesn't, it will always look like it looks, just need to clean it once in a while. I didn't put that well but hopefully you know what I mean. I 'm counting on that someone will come up with a real wood looking product that does not have wood in it. There's at least one out there now, but I'm not sure if they've gotten it right. Rather not mention a name. Bobby

[Mike K]

Bobby, you are correct in that a few companies are producing wood-looking composites with varying degrees of success. Some simply have streaks in them to emulate exotic species like mahogany, teak, etc. Some others are actually multichromatic where the varying coloration is throughout the product. Also, many of these come pre grooved to accommodate the TCG from Tiger Claw, EB-TY or other "blind fasteners".

The verdict is out on many of these as they are true composites, but there have been some good successes with them. Mike

[builderguy]

I hope I can clarify some things about the newer deck products. Procell (now Azek Deck) is PVC and Flax (Fibre and Shive) with colors by AmeriChem. Cellek is PVC and Flax (Fibre only) with colors by AmeriChem. Cellek offers options like double-grooved and single-grooved boards along with square edge. Sensabilt, TimberTech XLM and Gossen Weatherready are all 100% PVC. Trex Escapes is Vekka which I believe is PVC and Fiberglass. Finally, Luxrae and Truemarc are PVC and Rice Hulls. In my opinion the Truemarc is the hands-down winner in appearance. While perhaps a little less scratch resistant than the others listed, the performance is still excellent and the look is of real wood.

[dwelitedecks]

I've never heard of Tradewinds decking. I'd be very leery of using a composite decking without a reputable name. These products are fairly new. By new, I mean developed and put on the market in the last ten to fifteen years. Almost all brands (even the big names) have had their share of defects and product failures they've had to correct and replace. A product is only as good as its warranty and a warranty is only valid if the company can be located.

Hop this helps,
Dan Milford (DW Elite Decks)
http://www.dwdecks.com/blog

[quattro]

I hope I can clarify some things about the newer deck products. Procell (now Azek Deck) is PVC and Flax (Fibre and Shive) with colors by AmeriChem. Cellek is PVC and Flax (Fibre only) with colors by AmeriChem. Cellek offers options like double-grooved and single-grooved boards along with square edge. Sensabilt, TimberTech XLM and Gossen Weatherready are all 100% PVC. Trex Escapes is Vekka which I believe is PVC and Fiberglass. Finally, Luxrae and Truemarc are PVC and Rice Hulls. In my opinion the Truemarc is the hands-down winner in appearance. While perhaps a little less scratch resistant than the others listed, the performance is still excellent and the look is of real wood.

Our Luxrae decking installed in July ‘07 severely faded by the end of that summer (even with the Luxshield "nanotechnology" and all their claims). I’m looking for other people in Canada (esp. Toronto area) who shared a similar experience with the product. I purchased my deck through Hickory Dickory Decks, a major franchiser. So far, they’ve been cooperative, however, they haven’t wanted to take responsibility for the material they sold us claiming it’s the manufacturer’s responsibility. Now the manufacturer doesn’t seem to exist. So should consumers be left with an expensive faded deck… There has to be some consumer protection against this sort of situation (in Ontario — Unfair Practices - Consumer Protection Act, 2002). Hopefully, our governments are prepared for these types of situations in a global economy. I’ve heard of “implied” warranties whereby a dealer, by selling the product to the public, deems the product “fit for purpose”. I don’t think that they can completely indemnify themselves, regardless what they write in their warranty. If anyone has any experience in this type of situation, I’d love to hear about it.

[quattro]

I hope I can clarify some things about the newer deck products. Procell (now Azek Deck) is PVC and Flax (Fibre and Shive) with colors by AmeriChem. Cellek is PVC and Flax (Fibre only) with colors by AmeriChem. Cellek offers options like double-grooved and single-grooved boards along with square edge. Sensabilt, TimberTech XLM and Gossen Weatherready are all 100% PVC. Trex Escapes is Vekka which I believe is PVC and Fiberglass. Finally, Luxrae and Truemarc are PVC and Rice Hulls. In my opinion the Truemarc is the hands-down winner in appearance. While perhaps a little less scratch resistant than the others listed, the performance is still excellent and the look is of real wood.

Our Luxrae decking installed in July ‘07 SEVERELY faded by the end of that summer. The manufacturer changed their product trade name to Truemarc, also the factory in China called their product Onyx. You can go to following two website to take a look. It’s the same manufacturer if you check their warranty paper (ONYX ENVIRON-TEC.INC.)
http://truemarc.com
or onyxbj.com
The representative in Toronto and pretends to know nothing about Luxrae. But their manufacturer's name is identical. What a scam, be careful.

[STEVEMI]

Cellek decking is the worst!!! My deck lasted about two months before fading. Now after a little over a year it looks almost white in spots (brown originally). I would not recomend this stuff to no one. The deck builder wouldn't take my calls and when I went to his office, I was told, "not my problem". $20k dollar deck and I was never so close to going to jail for strangling this guy!!! Does anyone know what recourse I have?? I talked to Cellek and they said they were aware of the problem and were working on a fix. I still don't have a fix and my deck still looks like junk. DO NOT BUY CELLEK at all costs. My rails are Trex and they have been holding up great.

[Bayn Wood]

Cellek decking is the worst!!! My deck lasted about two months before fading. Now after a little over a year it looks almost white in spots (brown originally). I would not recomend this stuff to no one. The deck builder wouldn't take my calls and when I went to his office, I was told, "not my problem". $20k dollar deck and I was never so close to going to jail for strangling this guy!!! Does anyone know what recourse I have?? I talked to Cellek and they said they were aware of the problem and were working on a fix. I still don't have a fix and my deck still looks like junk. DO NOT BUY CELLEK at all costs. My rails are Trex and they have been holding up great.

Hi Steve ... Sorry for the problems you are having with Cellek.

You might try finding out where the product came from (lumberyard & distributor) Talk with them about your problem they might have a little more pull with Cellek.
The distributor might have a local rep. or Cellek might - try bugging them about it.

You can call your local building department, or the state code enforcement and ask them for help.

As a Last resort have lawyer write a letter to the builder and distributor/manufacturer with your complaint and your desired resolution

Keep us updated on what happens

[RobertManderson]

I have to agree with Mike K on a lot of points. Azek is a good product and just like cars, when it comes to composites you can either get a hynduai or a Mercedes. I have also had great experience with Fiberon products. I avoid Trex and any other name mentioned here. Maybe Timbertech. Depends on what the HO has their heart set on. I just slightly prefer Fiberon to Azek because of the bold mulit-chromatic design. Particularly the Horzon line I'm talking about that have a really bold design that is really nice. The Azek Sedona kind of comes close but not really as nice as the Horizon Ipe and other Fiberon Horizon lines. Just my two cents. You can not go wrong with Azek.