Stair Piers?

[Norm]

Have a question on a porch that I'm going to build for a customer. I'm a licensed and insured Builder in Ma. Over here in Ma. we have our own building code, which doesn't carry much information on Porches and Decks. Our Inspectors often refer to the IRC, on these Items, even though its not the Ma. code.

I have two stairs coming of a landing from the porch. I expect one to be 3 steps, and the other 4. I've always landed stairs on a concrete pad, with a 2x4 kicker fastened to the pad. The building inspector is saying that he wants 2 piers per staircase at the bottom landing. (4' deep here). Took me by surprise. Seems like overkill to the n'th degree. Its not in our code book. I was wondering if this is common practice in other areas?

[Andy Engel]

Not in my experience. I've always just poured a pad, like you. It doesn't seem likely that normal stairs would develop loads that justify footers, although technically, they should be designed for the same load as the deck or porch. And if he's worried about frost heave, how big a deal is that with stairs? Depends on where you are, but a lot of eastern Mass. has sandy soils that probably don't heave much at all. Different in the Berkshires, of course.

[John Hyatt]

One thing >> the premit store is always right <<<

Unless you can talk your way out of it, there is no permit on the job, or you know his wife's sister a person will do what they say.

John Hyatt www.deckmastersllc.com

[ArtDeck-O]

Have a question on a porch that I'm going to build for a customer. I'm a licensed and insured Builder in Ma. Over here in Ma. we have our own building code, which doesn't carry much information on Porches and Decks. Our Inspectors often refer to the IRC, on these Items, even though its not the Ma. code.

I have two stairs coming of a landing from the porch. I expect one to be 3 steps, and the other 4. I've always landed stairs on a concrete pad, with a 2x4 kicker fastened to the pad. The building inspector is saying that he wants 2 piers per staircase at the bottom landing. (4' deep here). Took me by surprise. Seems like overkill to the n'th degree. Its not in our code book. I was wondering if this is common practice in other areas?

Aside from the depth I always pour piers, you have a frost line to be aware of and you need to be below it. Yeah four feet seems a bit much but you are up there on the map.

[Norm]

Thanks for the replies.

Looks like this is the direction its going for stairs at the moment. Other towns in my area are requiring this as well. I talked with an architect, and he's prescribing this as well.

For a 30" rise, it left me surprised. Customer agreed to the change order, since it wasn't included in the original scope of work. Inspector isn't requiring me to use Big Foots on the tubes for the stairs, that softens it some. He is asking for a stair hangar made by Simpson. Won't except a ledger or hanger board. Every year, it seems like different parts of the code get a lot of attention here. Decks and porches must be one of the hot topics this year.

I agree with you John, little to gain with arguing with the powers that be. All in all, the inspector was good. He spent a fair share of his time explaining his reasoning.

On this job, after breaking through a foot of soil, it was all sand for the next 3 feet. That's unusual around here. It's generally dead-pan with a healthy dose of rocks. I assume I'm digging through fill from 60 years ago. Sand is nice, your lucky Andy!

[Andy Engel]

Thanks for the replies.

Looks like this is the direction its going for stairs at the moment. Other towns in my area are requiring this as well. I talked with an architect, and he's prescribing this as well.

For a 30" rise, it left me surprised. Customer agreed to the change order, since it wasn't included in the original scope of work. Inspector isn't requiring me to use Big Foots on the tubes for the stairs, that softens it some. He is asking for a stair hangar made by Simpson. Won't except a ledger or hanger board. Every year, it seems like different parts of the code get a lot of attention here. Decks and porches must be one of the hot topics this year.

I agree with you John, little to gain with arguing with the powers that be. All in all, the inspector was good. He spent a fair share of his time explaining his reasoning.

On this job, after breaking through a foot of soil, it was all sand for the next 3 feet. That's unusual around here. It's generally dead-pan with a healthy dose of rocks. I assume I'm digging through fill from 60 years ago. Sand is nice, your lucky Andy!

No, I'm not lucky. The town I live in, Roxbury, is named for the buried rocks. Every deck project requires a quarrying operation to get the footings in.

I had another thought. If you build a free standing deck - not attached to the house - the IRC does not require frost footings. You only have to go down a foot.